War in the Middle East

Posted by: switch

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Trudeau couldn't shut up about the plight of the Uyghurs and how China was genociding them even after Uyghur separatists killed hundreds of Chinese civilians in the Kunming train station with knives but with Israel the official stance of every western nation is that they have the right to defend themselves.  

It's such an obvious and blatant double standard.

There were something like 30  people killed in the attack, not hundreds, and it was done by a handful of Muslim terrorists.

Regardless, what was the reason for the attack?

I stand corrected. Hundreds of people were stabbed but yeah only 30 died. There was another similar attack in a city called Shanshan a couple years previous as well as multiple other attacks. 

I still think there's a double standard at work but no need to continue to take focus away from the actual topic.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Posted by: switch

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Trudeau couldn't shut up about the plight of the Uyghurs and how China was genociding them even after Uyghur separatists killed hundreds of Chinese civilians in the Kunming train station with knives but with Israel the official stance of every western nation is that they have the right to defend themselves.  

It's such an obvious and blatant double standard.

There were something like 30  people killed in the attack, not hundreds, and it was done by a handful of Muslim terrorists.

Regardless, what was the reason for the attack?

I stand corrected....

That's what happens when you believe the Chinese propaganda.

🤦‍♂️

Israel tells palestinian civillians to move south for their safety and then starts bombing south gaza.

Fuck israel.

For reference, all of Gaza is about the size of Vancouver, Burnaby, and Coquitlam combined, but with about 50% more people.  There can't be a lot of place to flee to.  War is shit.

Posted by: switch

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Posted by: switch

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Trudeau couldn't shut up about the plight of the Uyghurs and how China was genociding them even after Uyghur separatists killed hundreds of Chinese civilians in the Kunming train station with knives but with Israel the official stance of every western nation is that they have the right to defend themselves.  

It's such an obvious and blatant double standard.

There were something like 30  people killed in the attack, not hundreds, and it was done by a handful of Muslim terrorists.

Regardless, what was the reason for the attack?

I stand corrected....

That's what happens when you believe the Chinese propaganda.

Not really. That was my mistake. The official Chinese report states about 30 people died as well. I misremembered the number of total stabbings as deaths.

If you want you can check out the total number of confirmed acts of terrorism by East Turkistan separatists since the 90s. There's actually been around 200 totaling in around 1000 deaths (similar to the number of Israeli terrorism deaths for the same time period) yet Uyghurs don't get bombs dropped on them and have access to things like enough food, safe water, education, employment, health care etc... 

Compare that to Gaza where life expectancy sucks. You're in an area smaller than the GVRD surrounded by a fence and can't go in our out. Your jailers count every calorie that comes in to ensure collectively everyone is just above starvation levels. No opportunities to develop a proper economy as you can't freely trade with any of your neighbors where kids regularly die of treatable illnesses because the jailers either deny medicine imports or don't let the kid out of the country to seek medical care.... and as if all that wasn't enough they have to live with the constant buzz of Israeli surveillance drones that never ever ever stops. 

So yeah despite my error earlier I still believe there's a double standard.

Posted by: chupacabra

For reference, all of Gaza is about the size of Vancouver, Burnaby, and Coquitlam combined, but with about 50% more people.  There can't be a lot of place to flee to.  War is shit.

It used to be bigger. That’s part of the issue.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Not really. That was my mistake. The official Chinese report states about 30 people died as well. I misremembered the number of total stabbings as deaths.

If you want you can check out the total number of confirmed acts of terrorism by East Turkistan separatists since the 90s. There's actually been around 200 totaling in around 1000 deaths (similar to the number of Israeli terrorism deaths for the same time period) yet Uyghurs don't get bombs dropped on them and have access to things like enough food, safe water, education, employment, health care etc... 

Compare that to Gaza where life expectancy sucks. You're in an area smaller than the GVRD surrounded by a fence and can't go in our out. Your jailers count every calorie that comes in to ensure collectively everyone is just above starvation levels. No opportunities to develop a proper economy as you can't freely trade with any of your neighbors where kids regularly die of treatable illnesses because the jailers either deny medicine imports or don't let the kid out of the country to seek medical care.... and as if all that wasn't enough they have to live with the constant buzz of Israeli surveillance drones that never ever ever stops. 

So yeah despite my error earlier I still believe there's a double standard.

There is a double standard.  I don't think you are wrong about that.  There are a lot more voices in the west that will stand up for whatever Israel does than there are for China.  Israel is a close ally and the west is responsible for the creation of Israel, so this is predictable, but Israel also has a super powerful set of lobbyists across the west, including evangelical Christian in the US.  One is an ally, the other an adversary.  What do you expect?

The threat to Israel from Hamas is also far greater than the Uyghurs pose to China and there are a million other ways these are very different conflicts.  I also don't think that the Chinese method of ethnic cleansing by wiping out the Uyghur culture is much better than bombing.  They are doing the same in Tibet and the goal is the same either way.

The threat to Israel from Hamas is also far greater than the Uyghurs pose to China and there are a million other ways these are very different conflicts. I also don't think that the Chinese method of ethnic cleansing by wiping out the Uyghur culture is much better than bombing. They are doing the same in Tibet and the goal is the same either way.

first off I appreciate the acknowledgement of the double standard but I still wish to dispute some points:

I don't think the threat is that much different. Israel has one of the most well equipped armies in the world they just got caught napping whereas China doesn't nap. All Hamas or the Xinjiang separatists can ever hope for is to take pot shots that hopefully result in deaths. Both have the same MO, plan an attack and kill as many as possible until stopped. Hamas has no chance of actually conquering Israel just like the Uyghurs have no hope.of being granted independence.

They also aren't wiping out Uyghur culture. This video was shot during the last Eid festival:

https://youtube.com/shorts/oQ0gXaEg5SE?feature=shared

Remember unlike anyone else in NBR I'm friends with actual Uyghurs that I still speak with. They are not fans of extremism and are all doing pretty well. They all live in proper apartments, eat as much as they want, have running water and electricty all the time and just do regular life shit, go to work, spend time with the family, take the kids to a functioning hospital when needed, pray at the local mosque etc..still living under an authoritarian surveillance state but it's a far cry from the absolute hell that is Gaza.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

...still living under an authoritarian surveillance state

With State controlled news media that puts out statements like the Uyghurs all live in proper apartments, eat as much as they want, have running water and electricty all the time and just do regular life shit, go to work, spend time with the family, take the kids to a functioning hospital when needed, pray at the local mosque etc.

Vs independent media:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59595952.amp

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Anyhow, back to the topic.

Does anyone think that Israel created this problem by forcing the residents of Gaza to live in deplorable conditions? In try to protect themselves against something they fear they’ve created a generation of oppressed people people that can’t know anything besides hate for their oppressors. 

And it’s not the first time we’ve seen this happen either.

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: Fast-Orange

...still living under an authoritarian surveillance state

With State controlled news media that puts out statements like the Uyghurs all live in proper apartments, eat as much as they want, have running water and electricty all the time and just do regular life shit, go to work, spend time with the family, take the kids to a functioning hospital when needed, pray at the local mosque etc.

Vs independent media:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59595952.amp

----------------

Anyhow, back to the topic.

Omg Uyghur birth rates are going down! It's definitely because China is sterilizing women and not because women have more rights now and have opportunities other than being baby makers. 

You must have missed the part where I said I have Uyghur friends in Xinjiang that I still keep in touch with. I get my info from them not the Chinese government.

Posted by: syncro

Does anyone think that Israel created this problem by forcing the residents of Gaza to live in deplorable conditions? In try to protect themselves against something they fear they’ve created a generation of oppressed people people that can’t know anything besides hate for their oppressors. 

And it’s not the first time we’ve seen this happen either.

That's exactly what I think.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

You must have missed the part where I said I have Uyghur friends in Xinjiang that I still keep in touch with. I get my info from them not the Chinese government.

This is off topic but related; do your friends' experiences represent those of all Uyghur's and do their opinions represent those of all Uyghur's? Also, do all media reports here in the West come through the Chinese government or do some of them also come from independent reporters?

The point is that it can be difficult to get the full story of large scale events, even when one has inside or direct knowledge. 

Back to the Palestine - Israel conflict, while we can reasonably track the history of the region going back a century or so, the tensions in the region go back much further than that. The one major difference that has to be considered is that the actions of Hamas and other militant Islamic group are rooted in religious dogma bent on destruction of others. That is a decidedly different take than that of Jewish people. This in no way makes the aggression by Israel ok, but the ideology of Hamas has to be given due consideration. This isn't as simple as laying most of the blame for this on the state of Israel.