@taprider beat me to it. the ProX stuff is absolutely inferior (as far as being a chain lube) to the Classic. You want this stuff (or the Lite version).
MEAT Engines 2024...
What are people's thoughts on lube that lasts but is not enviro friendly vs lube that is enviro friendly but doesn't last as long? Are you willing to pay more for lube if it's less polluting for the forest? If so how much more per year - an extra $20? $50?
Posted by: syncro
What are people's thoughts on lube that lasts but is not enviro friendly vs lube that is enviro friendly but doesn't last as long? Are you willing to pay more for lube if it's less polluting for the forest? If so how much more per year - an extra $20? $50?
If I could get the same performance and silky-smooth-drivetrain feel from a bio-based lube as I do from the performance chain lubes I use now then what's $20 a year to be better? Assuming we're talking actually better not just a bit of green-washing. That's not a product that exists to the best of my knowledge.
Before cost even becomes a question performance needs to be similar. The claimed 'environmentally friendlier' lubes I've tried have been shit. They required significantly more cleaning, significantly more applications, and my drivetrain life was reduced. None of this stuff is something you're going to put in a glass and drink, how much of an impact does using a "bio-based" lube make in even the best-case scenario? How much more is it really costing if I'm also having to replace chain/ring/cassette more frequently (i.e. way more than $20/year for the lube).
This conversation also always reminds me of electric cars - people talk about "no emissions" but what they really mean is "no tailpipe emissions." In the grand scheme of you ending up with a bottle of lube in your hand dripping it on your chain, what does "less polluting" really mean? You're just asking about what you're leaving behind that gets washed off in the woods? If I'm carefully applying a few drops of Dumonde Tech Regular lube every few rides how much more harm does that do compared to whatever "enviro friendly" lube you're using?
"Everything serious is always [Full Suspension]" - Jerry Willows
How much motor oil is lost or burned in automobiles? How much oil is used in a year for a bike chain. ?
Bike chain is not an environmental concern . I use cheap motor oil or used fork oil. Do I care about the 5 ml of oil I deposit on the forest floor or pavement made from crude oil. No .
Plastic is made from crude oil and it does not break down any time soon. Oil is probably eaten by bacteria in small amounts I'm stoked that bike manufacturers are using less packaging and more biodegradable packaging ideas .
Oil is my least concern. Anyone know what we replaced lead in fuel with? Highly carcinogenic hydrocarbons. Not a fan if breathing that deadly shit, Benzene for starters , when I'm commuting by bike .
On a positive note I see more people commuting by bike. Even in crappy weather . Than I ever witnessed in the past .
Posted by: AndrewMajor
Posted by: syncro
What are people's thoughts on lube that lasts but is not enviro friendly vs lube that is enviro friendly but doesn't last as long? Are you willing to pay more for lube if it's less polluting for the forest? If so how much more per year - an extra $20? $50?
If I could get the same performance and silky-smooth-drivetrain feel from a bio-based lube as I do from the performance chain lubes I use now then what's $20 a year to be better? Assuming we're talking actually better not just a bit of green-washing. That's not a product that exists to the best of my knowledge.
Before cost even becomes a question performance needs to be similar. The claimed 'environmentally friendlier' lubes I've tried have been shit. They required significantly more cleaning, significantly more applications, and my drivetrain life was reduced. None of this stuff is something you're going to put in a glass and drink, how much of an impact does using a "bio-based" lube make in even the best-case scenario? How much more is it really costing if I'm also having to replace chain/ring/cassette more frequently (i.e. way more than $20/year for the lube).
This conversation also always reminds me of electric cars - people talk about "no emissions" but what they really mean is "no tailpipe emissions." In the grand scheme of you ending up with a bottle of lube in your hand dripping it on your chain, what does "less polluting" really mean? You're just asking about what you're leaving behind that gets washed off in the woods? If I'm carefully applying a few drops of Dumonde Tech Regular lube every few rides how much more harm does that do compared to whatever "enviro friendly" lube you're using?
The only enviro friendly lube I've used so far is the bio-based wet lube from WPL. In my experience I didn't notice any significant differences - pos or neg - over petro based lubes I've used in the past. Price wise it seems about the same as petro based lubes. Personally, I feel if I can use a product that overall has a less negative impact on the environment than another option then that's a good thing. For the amount of chain lube I actually go through the cost is not a concern for me, whether that's $20 or $50 (amounts were arbitrarily chosen). The persistence of certain petro chemicals in the environment however, like PTFE, is something that has motivated me to explore other options. Sure the amount of chain lube that I leave behind in the forest is pretty miniscule and there are other bigger concerns, but even the small stuff matters - or it should anyway. I'll save everyone the "save the planet" crusade speech as that's not what I was after, just looking to see if others have experience with different enviro friendly products that worked well or well enough for them even if the cost was higher.
We had a mouse problem at work and were told to remove all food from our work areas.
Turns out the mice were eating/drinking a sample of bio chain lube in a biodegradable cardboard container.
"save the planet" speech?
George Carlin pointed out long ago, it’s not the earth that needs saving
start at 1:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmo8sh77G6Y
and go to 5:20 about plastic and the age old question "why are we here"
Last edited by: taprider on Jan. 5, 2024, 12:09 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: syncro
The only enviro friendly lube I've used so far is the bio-based wet lube from WPL. In my experience I didn't notice any significant differences - pos or neg - over petro based lubes I've used in the past. Price wise it seems about the same as petro based lubes. Personally, I feel if I can use a product that overall has a less negative impact on the environment than another option then that's a good thing. For the amount of chain lube I actually go through the cost is not a concern for me, whether that's $20 or $50 (amounts were arbitrarily chosen). The persistence of certain petro chemicals in the environment however, like PTFE, is something that has motivated me to explore other options. Sure the amount of chain lube that I leave behind in the forest is pretty miniscule and there are other bigger concerns, but even the small stuff matters - or it should anyway. I'll save everyone the "save the planet" crusade speech as that's not what I was after, just looking to see if others have experience with different enviro friendly products that worked well or well enough for them even if the cost was higher.
Absolutely.
Triflow Soy had very impressive friction results:
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/30-chain-lubes-lab-tested-for-efficiency/
Posted by: Hepcat
Posted by: syncro
The only enviro friendly lube I've used so far is the bio-based wet lube from WPL. In my experience I didn't notice any significant differences - pos or neg - over petro based lubes I've used in the past. Price wise it seems about the same as petro based lubes. Personally, I feel if I can use a product that overall has a less negative impact on the environment than another option then that's a good thing. For the amount of chain lube I actually go through the cost is not a concern for me, whether that's $20 or $50 (amounts were arbitrarily chosen). The persistence of certain petro chemicals in the environment however, like PTFE, is something that has motivated me to explore other options. Sure the amount of chain lube that I leave behind in the forest is pretty miniscule and there are other bigger concerns, but even the small stuff matters - or it should anyway. I'll save everyone the "save the planet" crusade speech as that's not what I was after, just looking to see if others have experience with different enviro friendly products that worked well or well enough for them even if the cost was higher.
Absolutely.
Triflow Soy had very impressive friction results:
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/30-chain-lubes-lab-tested-for-efficiency/
Too bad it has teflon in it.
Posted by: taprider
"save the planet" speech?
George Carlin pointed out long ago, it’s not the earth that needs saving
start at 1:30
Yeah, I've seen that a few times. I think Carlin is funny, but imo he missed the mark by a wide margin with that piece.
My "save the planet" comment is in the context of saving this absolute fluke of a magical environment that we got even luckier to come into existence in. If people take the time to consider the impossible odds of us even existing in this amazing place, I think we might be more inclined to do what we can to not only protect what we have, but to make sure it flourishes. We're not doing that, we're doing the opposite, we're destroying it. We've filled the planet with forever chemicals in out quest for profit and comfort. We're the only organism in existence, possibly in the entirety of the universe, that seems hell bent on destroying the one place that can supports us. A good analogy is that we've been given this amazing plate of food to eat and we decide to shit and piss all over it first. In general, humans are gross in terms of the way we treat our home.
That's way more than what I was driving at in my query for an enviro friendly chain lube. As you were.
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: Hepcat
Posted by: syncro
The only enviro friendly lube I've used so far is the bio-based wet lube from WPL. In my experience I didn't notice any significant differences - pos or neg - over petro based lubes I've used in the past. Price wise it seems about the same as petro based lubes. Personally, I feel if I can use a product that overall has a less negative impact on the environment than another option then that's a good thing. For the amount of chain lube I actually go through the cost is not a concern for me, whether that's $20 or $50 (amounts were arbitrarily chosen). The persistence of certain petro chemicals in the environment however, like PTFE, is something that has motivated me to explore other options. Sure the amount of chain lube that I leave behind in the forest is pretty miniscule and there are other bigger concerns, but even the small stuff matters - or it should anyway. I'll save everyone the "save the planet" crusade speech as that's not what I was after, just looking to see if others have experience with different enviro friendly products that worked well or well enough for them even if the cost was higher.
Absolutely.
Triflow Soy had very impressive friction results:
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/30-chain-lubes-lab-tested-for-efficiency/
Too bad it has teflon in it.
Ah.
Bit embarrassed I haven't tried this one yet https://us.wplbike.com/products/dry-bike-lube
------------
Didn't we have a chain lube thread...?
https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/gear-4/topic/which-lube-132994/
Yeah, it’s just that the lube topic came up here so I thought I’d ask.
A 60ml bottle of chain lube lasts years. In the scope of personal environmental impact, its utterly, utterly irrelevant.
Posted by: cooperquinn
A 60ml bottle of chain lube lasts years. In the scope of personal environmental impact, its utterly, utterly irrelevant.
Yeah, I mentioned that. Problems start when everyone thinks that their personal impact doesn't matter. That attitude is why we see so many people complain about taking any environmental action at all because Canada contributes such a tiny amount to global greenhouse gas emission that we won't make a difference. As long as we think we can't make a difference then we never will be able to. It's the same thing talking to people about trail maintenance - "Oh I only ride a few times a month so I don't impact the trails that much so I don't need to do any work at all." It's about attitude and taking responsibility for the place we share.
But like I said, I was just hoping to find some better options.
Last edited by: syncro on Jan. 5, 2024, 3:04 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Its not about thinking your personal life, habits, and emissions don't matter.
Its about understanding focusing on the aspects of your life that have the biggest impact first instead of red herrings like plastic straws, metallic brake pads, or tiny bottles of chain lube.
Scale matters, and no one in on this website is at a point in their lives where the next biggest change they can make to reduce their personal footprint is switching to a more environmentally friendly lubricant.
Forum jump:
