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How much do you know about the history of Indigenous people under Canadian rule?

Aug. 4, 2023, 10:48 a.m.
Posts: 12205
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: XXX_er

i recognise  all the names of places we fished on the map from the late 60's it was still pretty low buck and the avergae factory worker could afford a couple of weeks and bring back a couple doz. fish. we stayed in a cabin built on piles out on the water in maderia park with a sloping floor I think it was 100$ a week and they thru in an old clinker built 12' boat

Cool.  There are not many places like that in Madeira Park (or salalus).  Was it right beside the government float?  I wonder how the dock management plan would handle a house build over the low tide line.

Aug. 4, 2023, 11:12 a.m.
Posts: 15933
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: XXX_er

i recognise  all the names of places we fished on the map from the late 60's it was still pretty low buck and the avergae factory worker could afford a couple of weeks and bring back a couple doz. fish. we stayed in a cabin built on piles out on the water in maderia park with a sloping floor I think it was 100$ a week and they thru in an old clinker built 12' boat

Cool.  There are not many places like that in Madeira Park (or salalus).  Was it right beside the government float?  I wonder how the dock management plan would handle a house build over the low tide line.

It was across from the govy float on the west side of the cove

back then damn near everybody was an alcoholic so it was a lot of fishing and drinking but you could fill a freezer for the price of   your vaca and in the winter it was drinking and hunting which could pay if you got lucky

Aug. 4, 2023, 12:35 p.m.
Posts: 12205
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: XXX_er

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: XXX_er

i recognise  all the names of places we fished on the map from the late 60's it was still pretty low buck and the avergae factory worker could afford a couple of weeks and bring back a couple doz. fish. we stayed in a cabin built on piles out on the water in maderia park with a sloping floor I think it was 100$ a week and they thru in an old clinker built 12' boat

Cool.  There are not many places like that in Madeira Park (or salalus).  Was it right beside the government float?  I wonder how the dock management plan would handle a house build over the low tide line.

It was across from the govy float on the west side of the cove

back then damn near everybody was an alcoholic so it was a lot of fishing and drinking but you could fill a freezer for the price of   your vaca and in the winter it was drinking and hunting which could pay if you got lucky

In Pender Harbour damn near everyone is still an alcoholic.  LOL

Aug. 5, 2023, 1:20 p.m.
Posts: 15933
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

My dad had an old buddy from the steelplant who had retired up there to fish every day out of a 12' boat/ 10hp/ a couple sport rods, he had a commmercial license so he sold the fish to a buyer, it was low production/ low cost, he would flash us hand signals on how deep to fish so at the end of 2 weeks we would take him over a 26 of Rum

we caught big fish ( 30+, 20+lb )all over that map even in the inner harbour thats why i say back when there were fish


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Aug. 5, 2023, 1:21 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Aug. 8, 2023, 1:36 p.m.
Posts: 12205
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: XXX_er

My dad had an old buddy from the steelplant who had retired up there to fish every day out of a 12' boat/ 10hp/ a couple sport rods, he had a commmercial license so he sold the fish to a buyer, it was low production/ low cost, he would flash us hand signals on how deep to fish so at the end of 2 weeks we would take him over a 26 of Rum

we caught big fish ( 30+, 20+lb )all over that map even in the inner harbour thats why i say back when there were fish

Ya, I have only heard the stories because by the 80's that kind of awesome fishing close by was over.  The local store in Madeira Park had a photo from the early 1900s of a 90 lb Chinook that was caught either in the harbour or just outside.  The Orcas are just now coming back there as well because they used to catch them and pen them in the harbour and sell them to places like Seaworld back in the day.

Aug. 9, 2023, 8:47 a.m.
Posts: 12205
Joined: June 29, 2006

Update: Apparently I don't keep up to date with the people back home.  Pender Harbour was officially changed to kalpilin in June.  My bad.

ḵalpilin

NW side of Sechelt Peninsula, between Sechelt and Powell River (city)

Feature Type: Harbour (1)

Status: Official

NTS Map: 92F/9

Oct. 16, 2023, 8:49 a.m.
Posts: 3063
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Can't remember if I've ever posted this link here, but it's a good look at how Indigenous people in the PNW used science to live in concert with the environment. 

https://pressbooks.bccampus.ca/knowinghome/chapter/chapter-7/

Dec. 18, 2023, 11:46 a.m.
Posts: 12205
Joined: June 29, 2006

I had mentioned the Pender Harbour dock management plan before as something to watch out for and it is now growing in scope and becoming more stringent and expensive.  I think people need to pay attention to this because the foreshore is generally not something people think about when it comes to land claims.  (link to article below)

For a little refresher, this is a plan for managing the docks between the province and shishalh nation on the Sunshine Coast and so far it has only applied to Pender Harbour which lies in their territory.  As you can see in the photo, Pender Harbour has a lot of docks, but most are small private floats built for a single boat.  The plan outlawed docks in certain areas, and restricted them in others.  For anyone with a dock you need to renew your tenure every 5 years and that must include a review by an archeologist which could derail the whole thing even if it didn't previously.

It was controversial, but now they have upped the stakes and have decided to include all docks in their territory to the plan including in lakes.  They have also done a 180 on boat houses and now they all have to removed at the owner's expense.  This included recently built ones that just renewed their tenures a few years ago.  With a little bit of cocktail napkin math it will cost the people in the area about 150 million dollars just to remove all of their boathouses.  This doesn't include the regular expenses already incurred due to the plan or the loss in property value.  

Maybe this ends here, but who believes that?  Anyone with a dock in BC should pay attention because even lakes are not exempt.  Will this affect ports?  It is worth asking these question now because people in Pender Harbour keep getting blindsided and now that has expanded to the lakes as well.  

https://www.coastreporter.net/local-news/swiya-wide-dock-management-plan-proposed-7883178

Jan. 5, 2024, 3:23 p.m.
Posts: 3063
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

^^^

Is there something that precipitated? Is this a case of the shíshálh swiya people exerting pressure in an area they can to garner an advantage for something else? What's the reasoning behind this?

Jan. 5, 2024, 3:25 p.m.
Posts: 3063
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

If you've ever seen big strips of bark pulled from live cedar trees and wondered what was going on this article explains it for you.

https://www.saanichnews.com/community/tsou-ke-nation-members-demonstrate-stripping-a-cedar-tree-287626

Jan. 8, 2024, 12:14 p.m.
Posts: 12205
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: syncro

^^^

Is there something that precipitated? Is this a case of the shíshálh swiya people exerting pressure in an area they can to garner an advantage for something else? What's the reasoning behind this?

I am not sure why they changed their minds, but there is a disconnect between Pender Harbour and the Sechelt Nation because even though it was a wintering grounds traditionally, they have had very little presence in the area for as long as I can remember.  A lot of the older families in Pender Harbour have Sechelt blood but they never had anything to do with the band.  The town is unincorporated so there is no political power to fight back, so it made it easy to proceed without having to listen or consult with the locals.  They also don't need to work with any local government, including the SCRD, just the province.  So they have the power to do it and not a single voice to tell them otherwise.  Just like at Joffre, the discussions are not public so it is hard to know what is going on.  I would bet anything all other FN's with shorelines in their traditional territory are taking notes.    

The main reason they have given to eliminate the boat houses is that they shade the shallow waters of the shoreline and prevent eel grass from growing, but they are also conducting archeology through the process.  That is how the dock plan was started in the first place.  As far as I know there is not a lot of science backing this plan either.  But it's a great plan for the Sechelt Nation because the people living on the waterfront are paying for all of the archeologists as well as any and all costs associated with the plan.  If the archeologist they hire finds anything of cultural significance the owner loses their dock and this process repeats every 5 years.  I am not even sure what their reasoning could possibly be for extending the plan to the lakes since there is no eel grass or tides.  

As I was saying before, the one part of UNDRIP that neither of our governments seems too concerned about is transparency, but if they keep doing ham fisted stuff like this the public sentiment will turn against this entire process very quickly.  Even the most progressive among us will get upset when the government inks secretive deals that cost them ten of thousands of dollars.  

So I wonder, will this be a precedent for the rest of the BC coast?  Will something similar come to Burrard Inlet, or Victoria Harbour?  This is an example of why I strongly believe we need to look at all of this now instead of the piecemeal approach the government has taken.  We need to know what is not on the table for negotiation and will be maintained for all Canadians, because I think the general public, the BC government, and the FNs all envision very different outcomes from one another.

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